Comments for Just and Sinner http://justandsinner.com Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:49:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.1 Comment on Sanctification in Conrad Lindberg’s “Christian Dogmatics” by Jon http://justandsinner.com/sanctification-in-conrad-lindbergs-christian-dogmatics/#comment-32 Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:49:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?p=591#comment-32 “If man had remained in the original state of integrity, he would have developed more and more until he had become prepared for entrance into the world of glory.”
What does this mean and where does he get this from? Just curious.

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Comment on What exactly is the problem with Gerhard Forde and the “Radical Lutherans” by Jon http://justandsinner.com/what-exactly-is-the-problem-with-gerhard-forde-and-the-radical-lutherans/#comment-31 Sun, 15 Jun 2014 06:53:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?p=532#comment-31 I think this thoroughly takes care of Forde and Paulson. I’ve seen a LOT of recommendations for Paulson’s Lutheran Theology (I even threw it into my Amazon Save for Later section before I slowly got wind of the various problems with it), and Forde’s name is quite prevalent.

So I think you’re identifying a huge problem in “Radical Lutheranism” and the insistence on combatting it is helpful. However, I’m wondering if you could list a bunch of names besides Forde/Paulson who are currently contributing, long form, to this problem. It’d be nice to know if I’m familiar with them or not. If not, then I’ll try to become familiar with them. I’ll probably have to reread the above post, then I might have something halfway coherent and intelligent to say.

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Steve67 http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-30 Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:59:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-30 As a former ELCA pastor and grad of an ELCA seminary who was influenced by Forde’s writing in seminary I have appreciated the critiques of Forde’s theology that I have heard, though they were not always easy to hear. These critiques have played a big role in realizing scripture does not support women’s ordination and my coming to believe in the third use of the law.

However, I can’t help but wonder if you are not painting in overly broad strokes. For instance you take Forde to task for his assertion that God did not have to send Jesus to fulfill the law. I have always understood that to mean that God didn’t have do anything for us after the fall; as opposed to your implication that he is saying that the cross was not necessary for the law to be fulfilled. Also at one point you cite a quote from Dr Forde where he is critical of the idea of faith as a pre-requisite for salvation and seem to want to imply that Dr Forde was a universalist, which is simply not true. And then my favorite kenard; the accusation that he rejects vicarious satisfaction. What he rejects is atonement theories in general because they narrow the scope of the atonement. It does not mean he rejects the substance of vicarious satisfaction he just doesn’t limit the atonement to vicarious satisfaction.

You seem to make the same mistake with Dr Forde that the “radical Lutherans” themselves make with their interpretation of “Lex Semper Accusat” where they infer that recognizing that the law always accuses means that it only accuses, and use that as a rationalization for their rejection of third-use. And with Dr Forde you cite his assertion that the Gospel comes through preaching and then seem to infer that he places no value on the historical reality itself, which I believe is a gross misrepresentation of his theology.

Along those lines, given that you seem so perplexed that Dr Forde’s teaching continues to have an influence in Lutheranism, I can’t help but wonder why not have someone from within LCMS who has defended Dr Forde on your show and give them a chance to answer any questions you come up with? You mentioned that Dr Pless has been an advocate of Dr Forde. Well if Dr Forde is even half as dangerous as you and others like Robert Baker seem to think then wouldn’t they have noticed? What’s the worst that could happen? You find out that you have been misreading Dr Forde?

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Chris Cooper http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-29 Sat, 14 Jun 2014 17:57:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-29 Peace be with you Jordan! Want to encourage you to go into the church history and philosophy behind the theologians you discuss. Your knowledge and insight are very beneficial to this laymen who in vocation witnesses the Lutheran tradition and Christian faith to a very wide variety of beliefs about the church. Having read “On Being a Theologian of the Cross” a few years back, before becoming a confessional Lutheran, any quick thoughts you might have on this book would be appreciated. Thanks for your hard work.

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Nick http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-28 Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:01:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-28 I’ve heard Dr. Deutschlander’s book on the topic good.

http://online.nph.net/p-1532-the-theology-of-the-cross.aspx

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Jordan Cooper http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-27 Sat, 14 Jun 2014 03:27:13 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-27 The two books I always recommend are Veith’s Spirituality of the Cross, and Gerberding’s The Way of Salvation in the Lutheran Church. After that I would recommend looking at Lutheranism 101 and the Confessions themselves.

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Comment on Some good posts on Eastern Orthodoxy by paul http://justandsinner.com/some-good-posts-on-eastern-orthodoxy/#comment-26 Sat, 14 Jun 2014 02:05:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?p=567#comment-26 You might check out an old-school Issues, Etc. sermon review found on Wittenberg Media. It is a review of a sermon on justification by Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon, who is an Eastern Orthodox priest. Excellent review touching on points of agreement and departure. (http://www.wittenbergmedia.org/category/justification/)

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Julie Juell http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-25 Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:41:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-25 What books/authors would you recommend to a new or pre Lutheran? Could that be a topic for a podcast? As a pre Lutheran,Forde was a steady recommendation from Lutherans. I want to avoid doing that to others. I often recommend Veith’ s “Spirituality of the Cross.”

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by Jordan Cooper http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-24 Thu, 12 Jun 2014 20:47:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-24 Good question J. Dean. It’s strange that more Lutherans don’t find this extremely problematic.

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Comment on A Critique of the Theology of Gerhard Forde by J. Dean http://justandsinner.com/podcast/a-critique-of-the-theology-of-gerhard-forde/#comment-23 Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:57:00 +0000 http://justandsinner.com/?post_type=podcast&p=584#comment-23 Did I hear right that Forde denied the vicarious atonement of Christ? If that’s the case, how is he not labeled, as at the very least, extremely heterodox, if not an outright heretic!?!

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